Discussion about this post

User's avatar
The 21st Century Salonnière's avatar

I honestly don’t understand your objections very well, although I’m truly trying to understand.

My statements about antibiotics (in the other post) were a thought experiment. They were not intended to make factual claims about antibiotics (other than “used appropriately, antibiotics cure infections, save lives, and prevent bad long-term outcomes of untreated bacterial infections, so a parent would be foolish to reject them out of hand”).

That’s hardly a controversial view. Nor did I intend anyone to understand it to mean “antibiotics are always good for every ailment.” That would be quite silly.

The point was, many parents would be frightened by the (true but small) dangers of antibiotics, which are arguably greater than the (true but small) dangers of the covid vaccines, if antibiotics were introduced today with similar scare-mongering tactics as we see with the vaccines.

I stand by my points that true information can be at times misleading (the previous post) and false information can be misleading (this post).

I stand by my opinion that if there’s a problem you cannot solve yourself, if you want to maximize your overall outcomes in life you will do well to listen to reputable, credible experts.

A doctor, for example, will know better than a plumber when taking antibiotics would be safe and appropriate for your child or not.

The pediatrician who’s always looked after your child will know better than a random person on Twitter claiming to be a doctor about what treatments or vaccines your child needs.

That does not mean listening to experts is an infallible approach. That doesn’t mean you’ll always be pleased with the result. That doesn’t mean that you must suspend your own critical thinking.

It just means you’re probably better off believing a credible doctor who’s studied the treatment (whether antibiotics or vaccines) than a person on Twitter who posts a chart of true but misleading information from CDC.

These are not at all wild or controversial claims! It’s something, though, which some people might not have considered before or thought about -- ie, that they might be so frightened by information that might factually be true (but misleading) that they make bad choices.

There’s a place for “common sense” to be sure. That’s similar to “trusting your gut.” We are in agreement about common sense.

However, often common sense without expertise is wrong -- just as a plumber might think his child with a fever needs an antibiotic, because the last time his child had a fever the doctor prescribed an antibiotic. Common sense perhaps, but maybe this time the child has a viral illness that antibiotics won’t help. The plumber has common sense but he can’t diagnose the difference between a bacterial and viral illness.

I’m not going to get into a discussion on homeopathy. It’s water. Anyone who enjoys using homeopathy is welcome to continue!

You’re simply incorrect when you say there’s “a vast amount of evidence at this point about the dangerous effects of spike protein-based injection therapies.”

These are exactly the sorts of false conclusions, quite honestly, the previous post was trying to address.

The mRNA vaccines, like antibiotics, have some strong and useful effects. Like any strong medication or any strong vaccine, they have some negative effects. These negative effects must not be minimized or dismissed. Every medical treatment that works also carries risk.

But after billions and billions of doses being administered worldwide, the cost-benefit is clearly on the side of vaccines.

Could it really be the case that every government in the world is in cahoots with vaccine manufacturers, and all those governments are also so evil, without exception, that they’ll give dangerous vaccines to their people, including people in their own families? Not a single nation has sounded the alarm? What does that tell you? Here’s a good place for common sense! 😀

It’s not a reasonable logical leap from “mRNA vaccines, like all vaccines, have side effects” to “the vaccines are dangerous and the spike proteins are to blame.”

You are exposed to enormously greater quantities of spike protein every time you get sick with covid. The created antigen -- in this case the scary-sounding “spike protein” -- is what prompts your body to protect itself from infection. Every vaccine introduces some foreign thing into your body that prompts your body to protect itself from infection.

You are welcome to disagree about what an “expert” is, if you believe I characterized an expert in a way you dislike. I believe I’m using it in the commonly understood sense: we ask the doctor and not the plumber for medical advice.

My point about experts in this post is that there is no such thing as a gender expert, and I hope I’ve established my reasons for thinking so.

Be well!

Expand full comment
Puzzle Therapy's avatar

First, I need to share some background on myself: I have always aligned with liberal or Democrat policies and voted for them. I have had the Covid vaccine + 1 booster (other boosters delayed because I got Covid and followed the science on trying to maximize natural immunity + booster immunity that both wane after time). I worked to help others find the vaccine early when it first came out. I’ve very much lived by “follow the science” and “fact checking” by cross checking with “reliable sources” like media outlets rated as high in factuality (like NYT, NPR, and WaPo), looking at snopes, checking the cdc page, etc.

Then my adolescent daughter was hit with a mental health crisis and she found videos during the school closures when kids basically lived online telling her that transition would solve everything. Like always, I did my research. I read the studies, saw their weaknesses and limitations. I learned everything you are writing about in this post. Then I saw the split between what was being reported by the people I had been taught to trust for my fact checking vs what was being reported and what I was reading in these studies and what you detail in your post. The “bad guys” and the “disreputable sources” (Daily Mail, New York Post, Jesse Singal, etc) were where I found reporting that matched the studies and the reality. It was disorienting beyond belief.

Even worse, the experts I had been taught to trust - doctors, nurses, hospitals, and therapists - and who were involved in my daughter’s direct care were all stating the bad info as facts. And not just the experts. Also family, friends, and teachers.

Am I assuming correctly that you are not the parent of a child who has dealt with the medical and mental healthcare systems for a child questioning their gender identity? It is really hard to overstate how stressful it is to have a child self-harming and actively threatening and attempting suicide, literally trying to save your child, and hearing that this is the only option. And not just hearing it’s the only option, but getting threatened with everything from state intervention and loss of custody to not caring that your child is at high risk of dying because of you. Even if you have all your research, sources cited, and references to relevant laws - even if you have done all the research hat you are describing in your post, do you know how impossible it is to find a therapist, a treatment program, a hospital, anyone who will provide care and support based on the facts? Even those who share your concerns will tell you they have to follow policies by their employer or professional organization.

Also, once the you see and experience all this, seeing all the trusted, “highly factual,” media tell you that you are wrong (and a right wing bigoted hateful parent who thinks they know more than the experts), and everyone from your child’s teacher to the president of the United States telling you you’re wrong while being able to fact check and disprove what they’re saying (and while your daughter gets more and more unwell and nearly dies because no one is willing to consider that perhaps - just for her case - this isn’t working), you start to feel like the ground beneath you is shifting and everything you thought you knew and trusted maybe isn’t. What else are you being told that isn’t true but you don’t have the time to read and dissect every study about it? It’s extremely disorienting and trying to figure out how to walk the line is incredibly hard.

Briefly back to vaccines: vaccine expert Paul Offit - a true expert and a pro-vaccine educator and advocate - has said it may be time to reconsider how we are looking at the boosters and who should be getting them. There are many who would call this anti-vax rhetoric and claim that experts can become captured by right wing narratives and therefore should no longer be considered experts. So what do I do, someone who understands how the “experts” snd “reliable sources” got gender medicine so wrong? I don’t know. But I’m waiting and listening with an open mind with the hard won knowledge that there’s no easy, checklist manual for how to navigate it.

Expand full comment
22 more comments...

No posts