Parents tend to go along with the prevailing customs of their time and place. The social pressure to conform is enormous, whether or not we experience it as social pressure, exactly. If parents don’t conform in certain ways, we’re considered outliers, weirdos, or worst of all, bad parents.
I'm not just against identity politics; I'm against identity. People spend way too much time in their head trying to find their true selves. It's not their guys. There is no "true" you. The only you is the stuff you actually so every day. Writing about data isn't my true self, it's something I do right now. I think everyone would be healthier if they spent a lot less time in their own heads trying to figure out their gender.
I'm biologically male. I like sports and lifting weights. I also like painting my nails and buying scented candles. I don't fucking care where that puts me on an identity spectrum. I'm the things I do
Feb 3, 2022·edited Feb 3, 2022Liked by The 21st Century Salonnière
Very interesting follow-up to your last article about the topic. Thank you.
Children just try stuff out all the time. I have sisters and of course I tried on their skirts or hair clippers as a young boy. I even called myself Tilda.
When my sisters got dolls for their birthday I had to have one, too. I got one, was very happy and never played with it. My parents did not make a big deal out of this. They didn't discourage it at all. But they also didn't encourage it. It was just child's play!
I lost interest and now I am a totally boring cis-gendered heterosexual (I am sorry).
I shudder to think what would have happened with me if I grew up in the US today. Just imagine this for a second:
What if my loving new parents now conclude that I am really a girl in a boy's body? If they send me to kindergarten in girls' clothes called Tilda?
After two weeks I decide that I don't want to be Tilda anymore. My parents are concerned about this. They ask me if some other children made fun of me. And indeed there were some boys that made a joke about my pink dress. Immediately my parents inform the kindergarten of these transphobic transgressions. After getting advise from diversity consultants the kindergarten teachers buy "I am Jazz" and "Julián is a Mermaid" to educate these transphobic hobgoblins. Now the next days I really don't want to dress up as Tilda anymore, but when I refuse to wear the girls' clothes my mother breaks in tears: "See what these kids are doing to Tilda", she sobs to my father. Angry and confused he calls the kindergarten. They schedule a diversity training for the teachers. Soon I am lauded for every stereotypically feminine thing I do and everybody tells me how brave I am to live as a girl.
Yeah I could go on but I think everyone got the point.
Now, I am really not a specialist in child psychology. But I do not think you need to be one to see why this is a bad idea.
This was another outstanding and well-argued piece. Your point about the kinds of decisions we do and don’t allow six-year-olds to make was especially convincing. When I was six, I wanted to go off and live outside in nature like Laura Ingalls Wilder. I was convinced that I was really a prairie girl. Needless to say, while I was allowed (and encouraged!) to play outside as much as I wanted, I was required to sleep in my own bed—and I was in fact happy and grateful that my parents had drawn the line. I think it can be terrifying for kids when there are no limits—when everyone around them immediately caters to their whims.
My other problem with transitioning young kids is that with any other medical condition, doctors take the most conservative approach—first, do no harm. So if kids have a cold, they no longer automatically get antibiotics. If they struggle in school, it is typical to give them therapies and tutoring before jumping straight to Adderall (even though there is a mountain of evidence for the effectiveness of Adderall for kids with ADHD). If a woman has a lump in her breast, doctors start with a biopsy, and then proceed, if necessary, to a lumpectomy and radiation. They don’t immediately give any woman who walks in their door a double mastectomy, “just in case.” Putting a tomboy or a boy who likes long hair and flowing clothes on a path to transition seems to me more like a prophylactic Halsted mastectomy than like the watchful waiting doctors do in any other case. By all means, let kids dress how they like! But that choice need not imply anything else.
So many excellent and thought provoking comments here.
The point I would like to add is that this is affecting ALL children who are exposed to these ideas in classrooms. It is not only the few who may have some kind of "gender identity" issue. Every child has been forced to listen to "I am Jazz". Many children cannot even read at grade level, but the education establishment chooses to waste class time on this nonsense.
Is it because they are trying to cover for the fact that in many cases they have failed at their core mission?
How does a society allow this kind of child abuse to be sanctioned in its schools? And parents are told that they have no right to object. If they do, they are labelled as "domestic terrorists".
What about the parents who refuse to believe their kids are a different gender and ignore it all -- but schools and friends treat the child as if they are different sex? There is so much cognitive dissonance, not only for the parents, but for the child.
Thanks for this article. Many parents are not following this current trend of encouraging the wish of transition of their kids. But they feel alone. New groups of parents emerge everywhere in the world (GENSPECT, AManda Familias, AMQG, Bayswater support group, Ypomoni, Genid Sweden, PDEQ-Quebec, ... ) But who knows about us ? Which journalist speaks about that in the mainstream medias ?
Yes. This is the presentation of the case which, if it were read by everyone tonight, would end the practice of social transition tomorrow. Your reason and clarity have triumphed again! Thank you.
When I was ten or eleven my friends and I rode our bikes a few miles to a small airport. We gave a pilot (a stranger) a couple of bucks for gas and he gave us a ride in his Piper Cub over our homes. Returning home we told our parents who had no idea of our plans and they thought nothing about it. Early fifties. Imagine that happening today.
Another superb analysis, Salonniere. I would urge anyone who's not listened to the episode of Gender: A Wider Lens podcast on this topic to check it out. Truly, social transition is a powerful intervention that sets children on a collision course with their own bodies.
I especially appreciate your discussion of how a major health website dismisses Kohlberg with no evidence and no argumentation whatsoever! It is so typical of the (un)reasoning we see again and again in major institutions and powerful media. Fudge things that were considered reasonably settled by the natural and social sciences until it's just a big blob of melted goo, and imagine that this blobbiness will somehow benefit trans people.
But the most visible result is that kids are transitioning at exponentially-increasing rates (socially and medically), while the actual problems that beset transitioned people (in housing, employment, and above all mental health) remain largely unaddressed. The loudest voices are in fact relatively privileged and focused on their own validation. They prefer celebrating sex work (for instance) over creating other employment opportunities for low-skilled, poor trans women. In this quest for validation, the losers are not "the cis"; they're the most vulnerable transitioned adults - and legions of children and youth.
Feb 7, 2022·edited Feb 7, 2022Liked by The 21st Century Salonnière
I'm not going to post this as yet another comment in the endlessly-nested comments under Klaus' remarks about identity, but it's inspired by his response. One great irony in the presently dominant understanding of gender is that sociologists and other feminist scholars have regarded gender as something one "does" rather than something one "is" since the late 1980s. Among these scholars? Judith Butler. That's pretty much the whole premise of Gender Trouble. Butler argues strenuously against the idea that there's some internal essence in ourselves that constitutes gender. Rather, gender is discursively created all the way down.
I disagree with the latter point when it comes to sex. Yes, the way we think about sex is shaped profoundly by societal norms and ideas. But reproductive sex would still be a binary thing (just two gametes) regardless of how we conceptualize everything related to it.
Butler does quite a nimble dance around the notion of an internal gender identity, these days. I have yet to see Butler endorse this idea openly - and indeed the New Statesman interview from a year ago revealed that Butler has declared a nonbinary legal identity in the state of CA but still doesn't think pronouns are anyone's personal property, tho Butler enjoys being referred to as they/them.
Identity politics originally referred to politics that take into account one's location in broader systems of power. It didn't refer to a deeply-felt sense of oneself. It's been warped into an exercise in navel-gazing, and the resultant rumination is proving unhealthy for many of our young people.
Feb 6, 2022·edited Feb 6, 2022Liked by The 21st Century Salonnière
I've posted other comments on this article, and I find myself still mulling it over a few days later. I think that's a good thing - an article that keeps you thinking.
I agree quite strongly that parents following the "social transition" mode for their children is a terrible idea. But I can't accept "societal pressure" as an understandable explanation.
We hear a lot now about how "finally, the adults are in the room" and back in control. Well then, act like it! Growing up, we all heard some version of "if everybody else jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?" from our parents, to show the limits of peer pressure. Now it seems we have parents willing to jump off that bridge, while the others line the road and cheer them on.
Grow up! If parents can't stand up to peer pressure in order to protect their own children, is there any line they wouldn't cross if the peer pressure were sufficient? It's a chilling thought. How much damage will they tolerate in order to stay in the good graces of the woke zealots?
A coherent, well written take on what is happening to our society as a result of pro trans activists starting to get a hold on our institutions such as schools and the medical profession. It is a wake up call to parents and others who care about that our youth is being indoctrinated by a fanatical group who will stop at nothing to shove their agenda down our throats. This spiteful, vicious group has attacked well loved people like JK Rowling, who has a commitment to truth first of all and calls them out for what they truly are and believe. They are holding up a bill against female genital mutilation for their own petty reasons, a bill that would benefit millions of women worldwide, all because of bickering over the usage of the words female and genital, which they feel excludes trans women. What could be more ridiculous, trans women don't have to fear FGM because they have no female genitals to mutilate! These same fanatical trans activists have attacked women's marches around the world because they hate feminists. Mermaids, a trans advocacy organization, had a high corporate officer who is a sex offender. They also push their agenda on vulnerable children, giving them breast binders behind their parent's backs. The list goes on... For how long will society go on before it gets sick of these fanatics foisting their disgusting so called values on us? Time to just say no to pronouns, calling men in dresses 'girls', misogynist trans activists, biological men in women's sports/bathrooms/lockerrooms and their whole, sick agenda!
A coherent, well written take on what is happening to our society as a result of pro trans activists starting to get a hold on our institutions such as schools and the medical profession. It is a wake up call to parents and others who care about that our youth is being indoctrinated by a fanatical group who will stop at nothing to shove their agenda down our throats. This spiteful, vicious group has attacked well loved people like JK Rowling, who has a commitment to truth first of all and calls them out for what they truly are and believe. They are holding up a bill against female genital mutilation for their own petty reasons, a bill that would benefit millions of women worldwide, all because of bickering over the usage of the words female and genital, which they feel excludes trans women. What could be more ridiculous, trans women don't have to fear FGM because they have no female genitals to mutilate! These same fanatical trans activists have attacked women's marches around the world because they hate feminists. Mermaids, a trans advocacy organization, had a high corporate officer who is a sex offender. They also push their agenda on vulnerable children, giving them breast binders behind their parent's backs. The list goes on... For how long will society go on before it gets sick of these fanatics foisting their disgusting so called values on us? Time to just say no to pronouns, calling men in dresses 'girls', misogynist trans activists, biological men in women's sports/bathrooms/lockerrooms and their whole, sick agenda!
A coherent, well written take on what is happening to our society as a result of pro trans activists starting to get a hold on our institutions such as schools and the medical profession. It is a wake up call to parents and others who care about that our youth is being indoctrinated by a fanatical group who will stop at nothing to shove their agenda down our throats. This spiteful, vicious group has attacked well loved people like JK Rowling, who has a commitment to truth first of all and calls them out for what they truly are and believe. They are holding up a bill against female genital mutilation for their own petty reasons, a bill that would benefit millions of women worldwide, all because of bickering over the usage of the words female and genital, which they feel excludes trans women. What could be more ridiculous, trans women don't have to fear FGM because they have no female genitals to mutilate! These same fanatical trans activists have attacked women's marches around the world because they hate feminists. Mermaids, a trans advocacy organization, had a high corporate officer who is a sex offender. They also push their agenda on vulnerable children, giving them breast binders behind their parent's backs. The list goes on... For how long will society go on before it gets sick of these fanatics foisting their disgusting so called values on us? Time to just say no to pronouns, calling men in dresses 'girls', misogynist trans activists, biological men in women's sports/bathrooms/lockerrooms and their whole, sick agenda!
I'm not just against identity politics; I'm against identity. People spend way too much time in their head trying to find their true selves. It's not their guys. There is no "true" you. The only you is the stuff you actually so every day. Writing about data isn't my true self, it's something I do right now. I think everyone would be healthier if they spent a lot less time in their own heads trying to figure out their gender.
I'm biologically male. I like sports and lifting weights. I also like painting my nails and buying scented candles. I don't fucking care where that puts me on an identity spectrum. I'm the things I do
Very interesting follow-up to your last article about the topic. Thank you.
Children just try stuff out all the time. I have sisters and of course I tried on their skirts or hair clippers as a young boy. I even called myself Tilda.
When my sisters got dolls for their birthday I had to have one, too. I got one, was very happy and never played with it. My parents did not make a big deal out of this. They didn't discourage it at all. But they also didn't encourage it. It was just child's play!
I lost interest and now I am a totally boring cis-gendered heterosexual (I am sorry).
I shudder to think what would have happened with me if I grew up in the US today. Just imagine this for a second:
What if my loving new parents now conclude that I am really a girl in a boy's body? If they send me to kindergarten in girls' clothes called Tilda?
After two weeks I decide that I don't want to be Tilda anymore. My parents are concerned about this. They ask me if some other children made fun of me. And indeed there were some boys that made a joke about my pink dress. Immediately my parents inform the kindergarten of these transphobic transgressions. After getting advise from diversity consultants the kindergarten teachers buy "I am Jazz" and "Julián is a Mermaid" to educate these transphobic hobgoblins. Now the next days I really don't want to dress up as Tilda anymore, but when I refuse to wear the girls' clothes my mother breaks in tears: "See what these kids are doing to Tilda", she sobs to my father. Angry and confused he calls the kindergarten. They schedule a diversity training for the teachers. Soon I am lauded for every stereotypically feminine thing I do and everybody tells me how brave I am to live as a girl.
Yeah I could go on but I think everyone got the point.
Now, I am really not a specialist in child psychology. But I do not think you need to be one to see why this is a bad idea.
This was another outstanding and well-argued piece. Your point about the kinds of decisions we do and don’t allow six-year-olds to make was especially convincing. When I was six, I wanted to go off and live outside in nature like Laura Ingalls Wilder. I was convinced that I was really a prairie girl. Needless to say, while I was allowed (and encouraged!) to play outside as much as I wanted, I was required to sleep in my own bed—and I was in fact happy and grateful that my parents had drawn the line. I think it can be terrifying for kids when there are no limits—when everyone around them immediately caters to their whims.
My other problem with transitioning young kids is that with any other medical condition, doctors take the most conservative approach—first, do no harm. So if kids have a cold, they no longer automatically get antibiotics. If they struggle in school, it is typical to give them therapies and tutoring before jumping straight to Adderall (even though there is a mountain of evidence for the effectiveness of Adderall for kids with ADHD). If a woman has a lump in her breast, doctors start with a biopsy, and then proceed, if necessary, to a lumpectomy and radiation. They don’t immediately give any woman who walks in their door a double mastectomy, “just in case.” Putting a tomboy or a boy who likes long hair and flowing clothes on a path to transition seems to me more like a prophylactic Halsted mastectomy than like the watchful waiting doctors do in any other case. By all means, let kids dress how they like! But that choice need not imply anything else.
So many excellent and thought provoking comments here.
The point I would like to add is that this is affecting ALL children who are exposed to these ideas in classrooms. It is not only the few who may have some kind of "gender identity" issue. Every child has been forced to listen to "I am Jazz". Many children cannot even read at grade level, but the education establishment chooses to waste class time on this nonsense.
Is it because they are trying to cover for the fact that in many cases they have failed at their core mission?
How does a society allow this kind of child abuse to be sanctioned in its schools? And parents are told that they have no right to object. If they do, they are labelled as "domestic terrorists".
What about the parents who refuse to believe their kids are a different gender and ignore it all -- but schools and friends treat the child as if they are different sex? There is so much cognitive dissonance, not only for the parents, but for the child.
Thanks for this article. Many parents are not following this current trend of encouraging the wish of transition of their kids. But they feel alone. New groups of parents emerge everywhere in the world (GENSPECT, AManda Familias, AMQG, Bayswater support group, Ypomoni, Genid Sweden, PDEQ-Quebec, ... ) But who knows about us ? Which journalist speaks about that in the mainstream medias ?
Yes. This is the presentation of the case which, if it were read by everyone tonight, would end the practice of social transition tomorrow. Your reason and clarity have triumphed again! Thank you.
When I was ten or eleven my friends and I rode our bikes a few miles to a small airport. We gave a pilot (a stranger) a couple of bucks for gas and he gave us a ride in his Piper Cub over our homes. Returning home we told our parents who had no idea of our plans and they thought nothing about it. Early fifties. Imagine that happening today.
Another superb analysis, Salonniere. I would urge anyone who's not listened to the episode of Gender: A Wider Lens podcast on this topic to check it out. Truly, social transition is a powerful intervention that sets children on a collision course with their own bodies.
I especially appreciate your discussion of how a major health website dismisses Kohlberg with no evidence and no argumentation whatsoever! It is so typical of the (un)reasoning we see again and again in major institutions and powerful media. Fudge things that were considered reasonably settled by the natural and social sciences until it's just a big blob of melted goo, and imagine that this blobbiness will somehow benefit trans people.
But the most visible result is that kids are transitioning at exponentially-increasing rates (socially and medically), while the actual problems that beset transitioned people (in housing, employment, and above all mental health) remain largely unaddressed. The loudest voices are in fact relatively privileged and focused on their own validation. They prefer celebrating sex work (for instance) over creating other employment opportunities for low-skilled, poor trans women. In this quest for validation, the losers are not "the cis"; they're the most vulnerable transitioned adults - and legions of children and youth.
Read this tonight because it was in GC News Review. 8 months later, still a brilliant and helpful piece. Thank you for your clarity and deep insights!
I'm not going to post this as yet another comment in the endlessly-nested comments under Klaus' remarks about identity, but it's inspired by his response. One great irony in the presently dominant understanding of gender is that sociologists and other feminist scholars have regarded gender as something one "does" rather than something one "is" since the late 1980s. Among these scholars? Judith Butler. That's pretty much the whole premise of Gender Trouble. Butler argues strenuously against the idea that there's some internal essence in ourselves that constitutes gender. Rather, gender is discursively created all the way down.
I disagree with the latter point when it comes to sex. Yes, the way we think about sex is shaped profoundly by societal norms and ideas. But reproductive sex would still be a binary thing (just two gametes) regardless of how we conceptualize everything related to it.
Butler does quite a nimble dance around the notion of an internal gender identity, these days. I have yet to see Butler endorse this idea openly - and indeed the New Statesman interview from a year ago revealed that Butler has declared a nonbinary legal identity in the state of CA but still doesn't think pronouns are anyone's personal property, tho Butler enjoys being referred to as they/them.
Identity politics originally referred to politics that take into account one's location in broader systems of power. It didn't refer to a deeply-felt sense of oneself. It's been warped into an exercise in navel-gazing, and the resultant rumination is proving unhealthy for many of our young people.
Whilst looking up Covid stats I see the CDC list numbers of pregnant people.
https://nakedemperor.substack.com/
I've posted other comments on this article, and I find myself still mulling it over a few days later. I think that's a good thing - an article that keeps you thinking.
I agree quite strongly that parents following the "social transition" mode for their children is a terrible idea. But I can't accept "societal pressure" as an understandable explanation.
We hear a lot now about how "finally, the adults are in the room" and back in control. Well then, act like it! Growing up, we all heard some version of "if everybody else jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?" from our parents, to show the limits of peer pressure. Now it seems we have parents willing to jump off that bridge, while the others line the road and cheer them on.
Grow up! If parents can't stand up to peer pressure in order to protect their own children, is there any line they wouldn't cross if the peer pressure were sufficient? It's a chilling thought. How much damage will they tolerate in order to stay in the good graces of the woke zealots?
A coherent, well written take on what is happening to our society as a result of pro trans activists starting to get a hold on our institutions such as schools and the medical profession. It is a wake up call to parents and others who care about that our youth is being indoctrinated by a fanatical group who will stop at nothing to shove their agenda down our throats. This spiteful, vicious group has attacked well loved people like JK Rowling, who has a commitment to truth first of all and calls them out for what they truly are and believe. They are holding up a bill against female genital mutilation for their own petty reasons, a bill that would benefit millions of women worldwide, all because of bickering over the usage of the words female and genital, which they feel excludes trans women. What could be more ridiculous, trans women don't have to fear FGM because they have no female genitals to mutilate! These same fanatical trans activists have attacked women's marches around the world because they hate feminists. Mermaids, a trans advocacy organization, had a high corporate officer who is a sex offender. They also push their agenda on vulnerable children, giving them breast binders behind their parent's backs. The list goes on... For how long will society go on before it gets sick of these fanatics foisting their disgusting so called values on us? Time to just say no to pronouns, calling men in dresses 'girls', misogynist trans activists, biological men in women's sports/bathrooms/lockerrooms and their whole, sick agenda!
A coherent, well written take on what is happening to our society as a result of pro trans activists starting to get a hold on our institutions such as schools and the medical profession. It is a wake up call to parents and others who care about that our youth is being indoctrinated by a fanatical group who will stop at nothing to shove their agenda down our throats. This spiteful, vicious group has attacked well loved people like JK Rowling, who has a commitment to truth first of all and calls them out for what they truly are and believe. They are holding up a bill against female genital mutilation for their own petty reasons, a bill that would benefit millions of women worldwide, all because of bickering over the usage of the words female and genital, which they feel excludes trans women. What could be more ridiculous, trans women don't have to fear FGM because they have no female genitals to mutilate! These same fanatical trans activists have attacked women's marches around the world because they hate feminists. Mermaids, a trans advocacy organization, had a high corporate officer who is a sex offender. They also push their agenda on vulnerable children, giving them breast binders behind their parent's backs. The list goes on... For how long will society go on before it gets sick of these fanatics foisting their disgusting so called values on us? Time to just say no to pronouns, calling men in dresses 'girls', misogynist trans activists, biological men in women's sports/bathrooms/lockerrooms and their whole, sick agenda!
A coherent, well written take on what is happening to our society as a result of pro trans activists starting to get a hold on our institutions such as schools and the medical profession. It is a wake up call to parents and others who care about that our youth is being indoctrinated by a fanatical group who will stop at nothing to shove their agenda down our throats. This spiteful, vicious group has attacked well loved people like JK Rowling, who has a commitment to truth first of all and calls them out for what they truly are and believe. They are holding up a bill against female genital mutilation for their own petty reasons, a bill that would benefit millions of women worldwide, all because of bickering over the usage of the words female and genital, which they feel excludes trans women. What could be more ridiculous, trans women don't have to fear FGM because they have no female genitals to mutilate! These same fanatical trans activists have attacked women's marches around the world because they hate feminists. Mermaids, a trans advocacy organization, had a high corporate officer who is a sex offender. They also push their agenda on vulnerable children, giving them breast binders behind their parent's backs. The list goes on... For how long will society go on before it gets sick of these fanatics foisting their disgusting so called values on us? Time to just say no to pronouns, calling men in dresses 'girls', misogynist trans activists, biological men in women's sports/bathrooms/lockerrooms and their whole, sick agenda!